15 | "I Think You Should Get a Dog" | Unexpected Life Lessons

In this captivating conversation, Carmen Leal shares the raw truth of her medical crises — from a devastating car accident and life-altering head injury to battling suicidal thoughts and the emotional toll of chronic pain. You’ll discover how her dog, Coconut, became her unexpected savior, offering her love, loyalty, and a new perspective on life. Through her story, you'll learn that the greatest healing often comes from simple acts of love and routine—like a dog’s loyalty, a long walk, or a well-timed nap.
We break down transformative lessons that dogs remind us every day: the importance of routine in a chaotic world, the power of unconditional love, and the courage to embrace new beginnings at any age. Carmen’s insights reveal that self-love and purposeful living are not just lofty ideals—they're within your reach, especially when you learn to listen to that quiet inner voice. She teaches us that hope can be found even after life’s most brutal storms and that serving others is a vital part of healing ourselves.

Connect with Carmen

Website: www.carmenleal.com

Facebook: Carmen Leal

Connect with this show on Instagram @wherewerisepod

Transcript

Khalila McCoy 0:00

Carmen, how are you today? I am great.

Carmen Leal 0:04

I am warm.

Khalila McCoy 0:04

I have heat. Yes. That is a good thing. Right now it is. I think it's negative seven here in Ohio. What's your temperature? I'm sorry. It's three, but it feels like negative seven.

Carmen Leal 0:16

Oh, we're gonna have an old wave, baby. Let's see what ours. Oh, yeah, right. Ours is well, it's not bad. It's negative five, feels like negative eighteen. That's a huge bad. That's bad. That's way better than it was.

Khalila McCoy 0:31

Do you have a giant parka?

Carmen Leal 0:34

No, you know, I am one of these weird, weird people that I not really get that cold. Lucky. And I do not own I do not own a pair of pants. I do not wear shoes. I wear bare legs the whole winter and usually sandals, and people freak out when they're sick. Maybe snow on the ground. Yeah, if it's if I'm walking the dog and I know he's probably gonna poop on that hill, there's snow on it. I have these little tennis shoes I'll wear, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. Once it didn't work, because I went up there in my little shoes, so I could add like a normal person, you know, not sandals. And when I went up to, you know, retrieve the prize on Mount Everest, it felt like it was snow. I fell through. And when I pulled my foot, my shoe landed. It left there, and I'm barefoot now on one foot. So then I have to go retrieve the shoe and the poop. So I go back up, and then the other shoe went off, and I was literally barefoot. So I walked home with a bag of poop, two little shoes full of snow, barefoot on the ice, and I went, What's the point? Oh my god. And I lived, I lived. So I mean, I do have coats. Um, I'm highly claustrophobic. When I was liking, I had my thyroid removed, and I woke up during surgery and I got to watch them sew me up and I had a panic attack. It was like a graze, a graze uh anatomy moment where I hear them, but I can't talk because I'm sliced open and I hear she's crashing. And oh my goodness. But so I have this hot anxiety, so I don't wear scarves, I don't wear hats, I don't wear okay. This is like a real, you know, amazing that I have that shirt on. But usually I don't, so yeah, but I you know, you survive, you survive, but it is pretty funny to get people's reactions.

Khalila McCoy 2:36

Hey, I'm Khalila McCoy, and this is the show that will have you laughing, crying, and feeling everything in between. This is where we rise. You must always ask this question when you buy a house.

Carmen Leal 2:52

Okay. Is there heat in the bathroom? I would not have thought that. I would not have you don't have heat in your bathroom. Well, I do now, but it was September, and there was a uh, you know, they had a little grape. If there's a grape there, there's heat, right? No, no, no, no. It wasn't connected. So we could hear and we had the wavy glass windows and they wouldn't open, you know, they wouldn't, they were painted shut, and and oh, it was, yeah, it was a hot mess when we moved in there because it was so cold. But we now have windows that we have a furnace that works, and we the heat in the bathroom is getting better, and um, our house is the reason why God made throws. So we have many, many throws. Bundle up. It's actually colder inside than outside someday's.

Khalila McCoy 3:47

Okay, I had to give you a few clips to start just because I needed you to feel how much fun I had with today's guest. Carmen Layell and I talked for 45 minutes before I even hit record. And then we talked for another hour afterward. I really enjoyed her humor, her honesty, and the way she effortlessly flowed from one story to the next. Carmen has lived a big life full of joy and full of pain. And today she shares the unexpected life lesson she learned from a dog. And don't worry, you don't have to consider yourself a dog person to enjoy this episode. Carmen doesn't either. But sometimes the things we least expect end up shaping us the most. So let's fully jump into this conversation. Right about now, Carmen was telling me about another experience she has had, but in a different country. That was the third time she mentioned moving since we had started talking. How many times have you moved? I don't know.

Carmen Leal 5:00

No, I don't know. Too many to count. Now, I've lived in I grew up in Kansas, and then I was in Brazil as an exchange student, and then I went to college in Kansas, and then I went to Brazil for two, I mean, um, Africa for two years, where I taught in the Peace Corps English in South in West Africa. Then I lived in Chicago for four years, and I think I lived four places in that time, and then Hawaii, where I live multiple places, and then Florida, where I live multiple places, and then back to Hawaii where yeah. This is actually the only place that I've ever only lived in one house. And it's been now interesting, it'll be nine years in March. It's the only time I've been.

Khalila McCoy 5:43

Now, do you do you look forward to moving in the change, or was it just more it's a necessity, so I'm gonna get up and go? It's always a necessity.

Carmen Leal 5:51

Okay. Because, you know, no matter where you live, there's things you don't like about it. And wherever you live, you can find things you love about it. And so I don't ever move because it's a bad place, it's because something happened in my life that caused it. Right.

Khalila McCoy 6:10

So, you know, in this case isn't necessarily that you're restless and you're ready to move.

Carmen Leal 6:15

It's no, no, I'm not restless at all, really. I mean, there is enough of wherever you live to keep anybody busy if they want to. You know, your life could be so full and rich in the smallest of towns, but it's usually something that precipitates it. So, Hawaii, that move came because my husband got a very good job offer. He worked for United Airlines and he got a promotion, and the where he got moved to was Hawaii. That's a really good reason to move. Um, we lived in a town called Kailua. Most of the time I lived there, and that's where President Obama bought his place. He would always vacation there, so you know it's a great thing. So, yeah. So yeah, it was very blessed. But normally all the moves were because of an opportunity like fulfilling my dream of being an exchange student or teaching in in Africa with the Peace Corps, or something really bad happened, like being an abused spouse and being a single parent, and you know, those things happen. And I think for all of us, and bad things happen to good people sometimes because we were just plain stupid, and we made choices we shouldn't have made, whether it's drinking and driving, or whether it's not marrying the right person, or whether it's you know, we all make choices, and sometimes those choices aren't the right ones, and we have to to use that horrible word from COVID pivot. And oh my goodness, yeah, anyway. Remember that? Pivot. Oh yes, like how to remake ourselves, but often it's because things happened to us that were totally outside of anything that we did. We there was nothing that we did wrong, and you know, we have so many topics we're bouncing around, and one of the topics that we talked about, our main topic is life lessons learned from a dog, which sounds like a really happy topic, but it started off not happy, and it was in Hawaii, it was um in 2015 in June, and it was a day off for both of us. So we went to the beach because what is more cliche than going to the beach in Hawaii? And we just had a lovely time, and it was I had a book club that day, and so uh we decided to take uh the scenic route that we never take because we're always rushing, and take the really the pretty route and enjoy nature, and we're just at a stop sign, just loving everything, and then bam! And this woman was driving a borrowed, uninsured SUV, and it was the biggest SUV of the class or whatever, and she just slammed into our little bitty Subaru, and we slammed into another SUV and then two other cars, and so I didn't do anything wrong, I just sat there and I was texting as a passenger to get an address to the book club, and because of the way I was sitting, which was angled my head down to do that, that caused, you know, the whiplash, it caused the tear of the muscle of my neck, the tear of the muscle of my back. And with the force, my hand flew up and the cell phone hit me in the head. So think blood course trauma.

Khalila McCoy 9:36

Yes.

Carmen Leal 9:37

So I have a hole in my head from that. And I walked away not knowing I had an injury. And if you look at the car away from that accident, you would we both got out and it didn't look like we should have died from the back and the front, right? And so we were like, wow, we're alive, and I called my son and they cut to pick us up, and the car is totaled, and and I woke up the next day and I felt but that's to be expected. And I worked at Expedia, so I was the person who made all your dreams come true. I was at the desk of the hotel, and there's my tides over there, and there's a beautiful pool on the beach, and aloha! Is this your first time in Hawaii? How can I take all your money from you booking all these wonderful tours? And I did, I made I made your every wish come true. I was a concierge, and I was very good at what I did, and I love Hawaii, I love everything about it, the weather, the mythology, the just everything about it. And so I really would engage with my customers, and it was one of my favorite jobs I've ever had in my whole life, and that works really well until you have a headache. Yeah. And I had a headache, and I know I've had 10 years of every day is a headache. It's just a matter of how bad is it. And I really had a tough time, and I didn't understand concussions. I didn't follow because I didn't know concussion protocol. Right. Um, which I have the kind of concussion that NFL players have where you can't really see it until you're dead. So um I was very lucky to walk away. And um, but it was really hard. I had to teach myself to read again. I couldn't sing, and I am a vocalist, and I sang in a wonderful um choral group and I couldn't do that. I had a really hard time with conflict, and when you're working with people, either it's conflict. If it rains and your luau rain is rained out, whose fault is it? Mine. I sold you that I should have known. You know, it's just ridiculous things. And so dealing with conflict when you have concussions and you have severe intractable migraines, they are not good combinations at all.

Khalila McCoy 12:11

So at this point, had you seen the doctor and they told you you had the concussions, or you're just you just walked away from the accident and you tried to keep living?

Carmen Leal 12:18

I saw my doc just my regular doctor a few days later, and he's an osteopath, and it was really, really more working on the muscles in my neck and my back, and trying to get me not to hurt.

Khalila McCoy 12:33

And um so did he even realize you had the concussion?

Carmen Leal 12:38

No, because that's not really what he does, right? You know, and he and I mean he did ask three questions. Did you black out? No. Did you fall asleep? No, did you throw up? No. So he asked all those preliminary questions. Okay. And to your listeners, you don't have to do any of those things to have a concussion. We see on the movies, right? Stay awake, don't throw up. Well, that's what we see. The reality is you don't have to have those symptoms. Not every disease or every injury progresses in the same way for everybody in the same timeline. And so as my headaches kept getting worse and it became harder for me to do my job, and I was not getting support at work. Um, I mean, I know now that they really thought I was a liability. Because when you're on commission and you gotta hustle, and so I was still the top producer, but what it cost me to hustle just about destroyed me. And now I know no job was worth it, but I was so scared of going back into poverty. Prior to that, as a single mom with kids, and then caregiving for my second husband, who was traumately ill, sadly, early on in our marriage, and losing my home and going bankrupt. I had clawed my way back. And you didn't want to lose-I just couldn't, I just couldn't. I could not give up my job, which I love, and you always think I will get better. So then became take this drug, take that drug, do this therapy, do that. And it got to the point where all I did was go to doctors. I had six doctors' appointments a week. Um, I had a couple massages, and then I had acupuncture, and then I had a therapist, and then I had the neurologist, and um I had a psyche vow with one of the top neurologists there, and he said to me afterwards it was a nine hours stretched over three days, and they get a baseline for you, and then they are able to figure out who you used to be in your brain and who you are now. So he said to me, you know, you must have been very um smart or intelligent at one time. I said, must have been. I mean, he said, he said, you probably lost about 30 IQ points because of this wreck. And personality changes, I didn't know me anymore. Um, I didn't, you know, it's it's interesting. People will be there for you for that initial, oh, I'm so sorry. And I don't care whether it's cancer or it's this or it's loss of a spouse, whatever. But honestly, people get really tired of you, and but they also don't know what to do for you, and so there's there's the guilt that your friends have, and I had no family there, I had uh one son, but I didn't have siblings and parents and and all that, and so I just I found that my friends just left, and now I I work really hard at being a friend when people are having the disaster of their life, and as we get older, we all have more and more disasters, and so I try and be that friend that is always there. I'm the one who's going to cook for you, I'm gonna sit with you, I'm gonna I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna send you funny memes, I'm going to, but it's hard. Life goes on and people have their life, and right, so I found that I didn't get really even from my husband, I didn't get the support I needed.

Khalila McCoy 16:40

What did you feel you needed most at that time?

Carmen Leal 16:46

You know, I I think I needed people to accept that I was never gonna be the old me again.

Khalila McCoy 16:55

How had your personality changed? Oh, my personality changed.

Carmen Leal 16:59

Oh my gosh. Um, I became more blunt, which is hard to believe. The filter, oh my gosh, I had no filter left, and I didn't have much to start with. And so we all have a situation where we know what we want to say, but we know there are inside voices and outside voices, and I did not have an inside voice anymore. They were all outside, and I probably hurt people, and I um was demanding and try keeping inside voices when you're dealing with a conflict, a conflict situation at work. And I worked for Air Canada before, and I was the conflict resolution person, I was a complete person, so I was good at what I did, but I knew how to do it, done it for years, won awards, owned a company where I trained people how to do it. All bets are off.

Khalila McCoy 17:54

When that filter left, was it like after you said it, you're like, oh crap, I said that out loud, or was it just like I said what I said?

Carmen Leal 18:01

Um, both times. Uh give an example. This is the day that I knew I could no longer do this. So it was in it was in December, and this one was from Minnesota. Sorry, Minnesota. You're getting a rough one this week, but there's another one. So, Minnesota, and they were there on their 40th wedding anniversary, and this woman was annoying. So she'd come to the desk and picks my brain, and I give her all the different options. We price it out, and I'm on commission, lady. Now you don't know that. Okay, I get it. However, she says, This has been very helpful. I'm just gonna take these brochures and then I'm gonna go on the internet and book it because it's cheaper. And I said, Yeah, you know, I understand Hawaii is not an inexpensive destination, but please understand if you book it yourself, I can't help you. So if it rains, I can't change things. If there is a wreck and you can't get to your destination, you I can't touch any record that I didn't make. But you know, mostly things don't go wrong. So feel free, okay. Sau like a little pissed because people had left and gone somewhere else because they couldn't get me this whole week, like four days. She's whining, she's coming to the desk, asking men's questions, sucking up my time. I'm trying to be nice, trying to be nice, but it's raining. Now remember, it's December. We do have a rainy season, and it's December. Did you not do any research before you chose this? Well, I don't always rain, and it was oh I go, you know what? It's it's an acting in the shower, it cleanses the air, it's so sweet. Your lua's not till 5 30, and you're on the dry side of the island. Don't worry, I'm doing everything right. Right. And inside is a different story, but I'm holding, I'm I'm holding it together. And she won't stop. And then she's in front of me, and I have this long line of people trying to spend money. I'm they can't do it, and they're leaving. And my paycheck, I can't pay my bills, I'm getting all stressed, right? So she starts again. Why is it always raining? Blah blah blah blah blah. Well, if it wasn't rain, there wouldn't be rainbows. Look how great it is. I mean, I'm doing and she was like, Okay, get this picture, and we're talking like 20 minutes of this. I'm not gonna be able to do it. People in London are probably getting impatient, and people are impatient, and I have real problems to solve, like rebooking stuff, whatever. And so she goes off. I'll look at this woman and I said, You know, you know why it always rains in Hawaii? She goes, Why? I said, Well, it depends upon how bitchy someone is, and I said it, I said it, and then I went, oh no, they didn't say that, they just didn't say that. So I quickly said, but that's not you. It was me. There was a my last guest before you. Oh, she was such a witch. She made it right. Now you just brief deep things with thoughts and the rainbow came out. She thought she stopped the ring. Oh my goodness. And she left.

Khalila McCoy 21:17

You gave that woman so much power.

Carmen Leal 21:19

And I picked up my phone and I called my manager and I said, I'm done. Two weeks' notice because I cannot be trusted. If I can't have a discussion about the weather without calling someone a bitch, no, I am no, I'm done. I'm done. And so that was that was the day I gave my notice. So, and that's, you know, yeah, I could have been fired for that. You could have got me fired. And there were other things I know I said that I should have been fired. And the stress of holding everything in and having this headache and not knowing what's wrong with me, and knowing there's no fix, and there were other like I had. I don't know if you can see this eye. My right wing, you can see it isn't symmetrical. It's it droops. So I've had I don't know, four eye surgeries to fix this. When the phone that hit me, it severed the muscles that hold up the eyelids, so it dropped. So I have this terrible fear of driving anyway. I had no idea I was driving with no peripheral vision until I got here. I thought people were all gunning for me and trying to kill me. And so you're like, oh, it's me. No, and then I was so suicidal, which I am a happy person. And it was so I couldn't read anymore. I couldn't sing anymore. Um, my whole life was nothing except working and medical and changing drugs with all the different side effects that made me not me. And there was just no end. And we were talking, I don't know, two years of this. And my son had just moved to, he had just graduated from law school. He went to U Medicine Law School, married a girl from Wisconsin. It's the whole story how he got involved in Wisconsin. And they had just moved to Oshkosh. And and so they lived his he and his son and wife for two years. She did not like humidity. And so she, you know, there there was no chance of them staying. He wanted to. She didn't. He she won. And they went back. He was there during the wreck. He picked me up. And but I don't ever remember he or his wife saying, Is there anything you need? And so I take responsibility for the fact that many people weren't there because they didn't know how to be there, because I didn't give them express instructions. Like when I was a single parent and you know, raising my, you know, trying to care for my second husband, and people say, I am so sorry if there's anything I can do. Yeah, you don't mean that. You don't mean that. I mean, you mean it when it comes out of your mouth, but most people aren't going to follow up. You've said that before. Yeah. And how many times did you follow up? I am so sorry if there's anything I can do. You don't follow up. I don't follow up. That's just the world gets in the way. Right. So I got these three by five cards that I would write. Pick up boys from soccer Monday, Wednesday, Friday, four o'clock. Need a dinner on Friday. This is what I want. I mean, I was that specific. If this is anything you can do, I'd say, thank you so much for asking. These were the things I want. What would you like? People would take their card, and nobody never didn't show up. Everybody that's really good. Life hack, do that. Yeah, that's a really good idea. People want to help, they truly do. They just don't know what to do. And you need to tell them what would be helpful. If there's anything I can do, I am so sorry. You know, I need a prescription picked up. And I don't like driving after dark because it's hard for me to see now. If you could go to Walgreens and pick that up and then maybe go and pick me up some chicken soup at Panera and bring it back to me because my husband's working late tonight, I would love that. Is that something you can do? You're not gonna say no. Right. Because I'm not gonna ask you if I know that you're not off work. Now you have the right to say, oh, I already made plans tonight. I can say that's fine. That's fine. But if you haven't made plans, you're gonna say, yes, I can do that. And you will do it.

Khalila McCoy 25:50

You say I can do anything. And so I just tell you what to do. I give you up. But I didn't do that.

Carmen Leal 25:56

I didn't do that because I was in so much pain, both emotionally and physically, and I just didn't revert back to all the lessons that I knew. I mean, I wrote books about this stuff. I traveled around the world speaking on this stuff, telling people this. You would think I, of all people, would practice what I preach, but I didn't. And so I will accept that. So I was 60. We we moved here when I was 62. So it was almost two years of this.

Khalila McCoy 26:34

What do you think it was that stopped you from that practice, what you preach?

Carmen Leal 26:39

I have never in my life been in so much pain. And pain changes everything. Like I don't remember ever having a headache. And I am genuinely a very healthy person. My mom had eight kids, and she said, You don't get to be sick. You can get to sick one day a week, one day a year. Sorry, one day a year. And my little brother said, Mama, because you're the mama, do you get two days to be sick? I had a perfect attendance record, K through 12. Now I may have to throw it up on the way to school. So I I just didn't understand what pain does to you. Okay. And I know you have listeners who probably have chronic pain, and they're saying, Oh, Richard teacher, I know, I know. I mean, it's just you become a different person and everything goes out the window. And the focus on I just need to get up and make it through this shift without throwing up because my headaches hurt so much. I just need to figure out how to do this job without insulting somebody, even though they deserve it. I just I need I mean I cussed out a coworker and it was bad. And she deserved it. But you don't get to do that.

Khalila McCoy 28:01

Right.

Carmen Leal 28:01

Not in you can't do that. And so I was holding on so tight just to survive that you can't think of anything else.

Khalila McCoy 28:15

Is that where the idea of suicide kind of started to creep in? Yep, it did for me because I didn't it wasn't a life.

Carmen Leal 28:25

I wasn't me anymore, and I wasn't living a life of joy. I wasn't serving because I was used to being that person who volunteered. I think that all of us are put on this earth to experience what we have so we have empathy and compassion and we can give away. That's my philosophy on life. I couldn't do that anymore. I couldn't be the giver anymore. That was such a core of who I was through all the ups and downs in life. That was still me. That was the hallmark of the character that God put in me, and it was gone. If that's gone, why do I exist? You know, like my mother, people, you know, they say, what is one thing that someone told you that made a difference in your life? And people all will maybe speak to a president or an actor, or you know, somebody famous. And my mind is always my mom. And my mom always said, be the best you you can be, and then help others be their best selves. That was our that was our family mantra. Yes, that was ingrained in us. I could not be the best me anymore, and I sure couldn't help anybody else be their best self. So if I am not me anymore, and I'm not helping anybody, why am I on this earth? Why am I why am I there? Because if I'm not there, I don't have to deal with this pain anymore. And even though you're hurting the people that you leave, at that point maybe you feel like you're hurting them more by staying. That's and I never told anybody. I didn't tell my husband, I didn't tell friends, I didn't tell co-workers, I just kept everything inside, and that's a really bad thing to do. There's a reason there are suicide hotlines, there's a reason why people say be honest and open, but I was not. My doctor knew, but I never told him. And he asked me about a year after this whole started. He said, And he was just a saint. And he said, Do you know why I saw you so often in the beginning? And and I said, Yeah, because I was all jacked up. He said, Well, yeah, that's true. He said, But your insurance only paid for one 30-minute appointment a week. And I saw you for three one-hour appointments. And I said, Why? And he said, You're the always you're the person who would always show up. And if you showed up, I knew you were alive. You were so suicidal, and you didn't know it or you wouldn't accept it. And so I just kept you going to all these different places. And if you came and saw me three days a week, I knew you were alive. And I said, Well, who'd you bill? And he goes, No one. He saw me for two and a half hours for free. He never billed anybody. That is awesome. Mm-hmm. What a big guy. The best doctor. And in fact, after we moved here, he was originally, again, from Minnesota, and he had to go to a conference in Wisconsin. So he flimsied in Minnesota, saw his mom, picked up her car, drove, and said, I'm gonna stop. I want to make sure you're okay. And so he came and saw my house, and he met my dog, and we took me to lunch. And only then, because I had him as my doctor for a whole year after I moved. So we did everything FaceTime, and that was mainly so we could continue my disability, you know, so I had insurance. And he was, he said, I won't sign off and give you a different doctor until I am there and I can see with my own eyes that you're the person I used to know. And he did that for me. Isn't that amazing? That is, yeah. And he was also the doctor who said, I think you should get a dog. And I said, I can't, no, I don't do dogs. Don't do dogs, and I can't even keep myself alive. I I can't do dogs, and uh no, but no, I said, they won't he go, no, no, well, it's an emotional support dog. I'll make sure you get it at work and I'll do this. I said, no, no, I can't. I don't I no, I'll make sure you're land or land, and I said, no. And I look back and I really wish I would have listened, and then I would have gotten the dog. If I could do anything different, I would go on disability immediately. I would have worried less about money, I would have been content to go on social services if I needed to, to get on food stamps or section eight. Um, I would have moved to a tiny studio and I would have gotten a dog. And if I did all those things, I think I'd still be annoying. I think that because that dog saved my life when I finally decided to do it.

Khalila McCoy 33:46

What changed?

Carmen Leal 33:48

Oh, you know it's not a good story. No, I know it's not a good story. We moved here in March, and it was not an easy entry. And my husband worked at night um at 10 o'clock. So I didn't know anybody except my son, and he was busy with his little family and working, and so here I am, just dropped from outer space into this thing called Wisconsin, where I didn't know anybody. And moving is hard at any age. Moving as a senior is super hard. It's so hard because we don't have um we make friends through connections like work, your kids' school, church, all those things. I had none of the above. So I didn't make any friends. I didn't have anybody. I mean, I saw people and I'd say hello and walk down the street, whatever.

Khalila McCoy 34:43

But and then true connections.

Carmen Leal 34:45

Yeah, no, no connections. And then I we bought this house that it was it wasn't a money pit by any means, but it was a money drainer, for sure, because there was lots to do on this, which is the good news, bad news, and then the yard from hell and the flooding and you know, all those things, and you know, I'm I'm making it through, and I am still I don't know, I'm just foot in front of each other, but I still was always thinking, well, I had too much alone time, and I was always thinking about you know killing myself. And we I had bought these knives and I cooked, and so people, you know, my hands, oh you deserve these knives. No, no, no, those are my suicide knives. Well, that's I mean, I had a plan and I was alone a lot. Well, I made it till July. And it was hot that day, and in Oshkosh, we have something called the EAA, which is the Experimental Aircraft Association, and it's the largest air show in the world. It happens for a week. Uh, this past year we had almost 700,000 people come through. It's the busiest airport in the world that day, that week. Yeah, it's crazy, crazy, and it's loud. And uh my my my migraines are noise-induced. Oh, yeah. And I had never heard of this little EAA thing, and so I decided to walk downtown, which I live right off downtown. We had a book, and I'm gonna go to a coffee shop and act normal and order something and read and suck off the air conditioning, you know, and like a real person. So, you know, I'm walking and I'm right in front of the post office, and I hear, I hear this noise. I mean, it was a flyover like five, whatever you call those, you know, fighter jets. It was so noisy, so loud, and it was shaking, it was so unexpected, and I stood there and I didn't know what was happening, and in my mind, I was being blitzed, and I really thought that people were trying to kill me. I thought there were bombs. And it was just my brain was so broken and so tired, and I I started crying, and I stood there and I shook, and then I fell on the ground, and I sat on the hot pavement crying, and people drove by and people walked by and walked around me, and they went in the post office and nobody stopped. No, I didn't have one person. No one called 911, no one said, Okay, I mean, maybe I look like a homeless person. I mean, they didn't even try to give you a dollar though, but you could still call the police something, and I cried. Oh, that breaks my heart. It was horrible. Yeah, it it took me a long time. In fact, I didn't share that story until I wrote my second book. I would just kind of gloss over what happened. And so I get up and I walk home, and the movers had lost or broken everything. It was a horrible move, and the sofa was missing one leg. So just imagine me on my little sofa with leaned over, leaned over, and I'm all cried out. And all I can think of is okay, if I get up, I can get to the kitchen, I can get these knives, and I can kill myself. I mean, I'm I wasn't even making light of, and I that was my plan. And I got in there, and there were boxes that were not unpacked, and I'm frantically going through the boxes. The move was it lost the box where the knives were. Well, good.

Khalila McCoy 38:37

But sorry.

Carmen Leal 38:38

And I'm like, well, I had words I'm not gonna share here because they're inside words, and um so I go back to my little couch and I thought, you know what? I'm gonna get a dog. It's not gonna work, but I've tried all these drugs, I've tried so hard, and I know it won't work, so I'm gonna name this dog Xanax. He'll be like all the drugs I threw away because it didn't work. But my husband has always wanted us to have a dog, and I've always said no, he was a dog person. And I said, So at least when I die, my husband will have the dog and he won't be alone. So that was my big plan.

Khalila McCoy 39:16

Okay. So you were still thinking about taking your life, but you're just thinking a dog would be okay for that work, but at least he would have that.

Carmen Leal 39:25

That's pretty logical, right? I mean, come on, Mr.

Khalila McCoy 39:27

I mean, that's that was nice of you, I guess.

Carmen Leal 39:31

It took a couple months, and we finally went, and we went to the only shelter that was open. It wasn't rescue independent. Yeah. Um they have a little website where they have dogs, the bios, and my husband had pre-picked the ones he wanted to see, and he was excited, and I'm not. And we get in there, and you can imagine how enthused I was. And every dog came to him. That's great. And they treated me like I was a chopped liver. Like, I'm like, if if this is my emotional support dog, shouldn't a dog come to me, or at least know I'm in the room. So the owner said, Well, what do you want in a dog? I said, Well, I want a dog that doesn't jump, don't bark, don't lit, don't get on my furniture, and is not a pest. That's what I want. And I want no knowing dog. And he said, Well, I have the perfect dog for you. You want a stuffed animal, right? I said, Yep. He goes, No, I have a great dog for you. I know. So he goes back and he brings in this little brown nothing of a dog. He's like a mutt. Like it didn't, it wasn't like, ooh, look at those blue eyes. Ooh, you're a this. No, it was just nothing. It was a mutt with a long tail. Had no idea what he was. It was like, I don't know, he was really underweight. Turns out he was 12 hours underweight, and he'd been astrayed. And the dog didn't notice my husband was in the room. He came straight to me and he sat in front of me. He just sat there and he just stared. And the owner said, Why don't you give him a treat? And I held it out, and he was so gentle eating it from my hand. So I could you could tell he had been trained to some degree. And then I took him on a leash and we walked, and um so we adopted this dog that day.

Khalila McCoy 41:16

Did you start to feel a connection in those moments with them?

Carmen Leal 41:19

Or no, no, not even no, I did not, and it went then it got really bad. It got really bad because I had finally made a couple friends from book clubs that I had started going to. So I made I had plans to go to the theater, and I didn't want to cast my plans because I might never get friends again, right? So I thought, well, how bad can it be? I got hardwood floors. He'll just poop and then I'll just come pick it up. It's only a few hours. Oh no, no, no. That is not what happened. I walked in and to utter destruction of my house. My 106 cents drapes that we negotiated for, the silk drapes, never gone. Just torn down. I had the the curtains upstairs and the blinds I had bought that week torn down. The bathroom we had the bedroom. Got into the pantry, knocked over the shelf, destroyed everything, ate the macadamia nuts. I think I was most mad about that. And uh, there's supposedly a poisonous knot for him. And of course, there was a lot of things. I was gonna say, did he get sick? Nope. Did not. What he did though is he couldn't stand. He couldn't walk up the stairs. So we had to carry him up the stairs, put him in his little bed, and he couldn't stand. And I said, we have a problem. If you can't stand, you can't poop, and if you can't poop, we got a problem. So I we ended up having to go to the emergency vet, and no, the cost, the cost was ridiculous. And I didn't even want this dog. And I told her, I said, we need to, I don't want any fetal exams, I don't want any, I don't want nothing except tell me what's wrong with his knee or whatever it is and fix it. Because he's already been to a vet within 30 days. I don't need none of these tests. They came back with every test known to man. $1,700. Wow. And I said, no, I'm not paying that. And she goes, Oh no. I said, no, listen, I told you. Uh first of all, get the manager so the vet comes out. I said, first of all, I want to thank you for hiring the hearing impaired. Because that's the only reason this happened. Because I was very specific. And I'm a very good communicator. I told you what not to do, and they did it. Right over arguing with these people. And I said, no, I'm not paying for it. And I wrote a number down that I would pay for, which was $500, which was more than the adoption fee. But I said to her, This is what I'm offering you. All he had was a sprain. I could have given that dog baby ass one and it would have been fine.

Khalila McCoy 44:03

That was it? It was it.

Carmen Leal 44:05

Oh my goodness. I was but that I call that my stupid tax. Okay, that was my stupid tax that I had to pay. But I said, I'm not paying a penny more. And she says, Well, that's n I said, look, I'm not paying this. I'm not paying this. And I said, here's here's you're either gonna take $500 or you can take the dog. Because the dog was $300, and I can go get another dog. There's a lot of dogs out there. So you got a dog. So she took the money. And I go home. And I'm not gonna say it was instantaneous at all. But I am going to tell you when you have a dog, unless you like cleaning up poop in the house, you must take them for a walk. Okay, yes. Because we did not have a dog-proof fence, I found out. Lots of stories about runaway dogs, but you must walk them. And if you walk them, you must get sunshine. And you're gonna get this healing vitamin D. There's something about being outside that will help whatever ails you. And then you have to see people, and dogs are people magnets, and they have maybe passed you a hundred times, but they won't pass you with a dog. Oh, he's so cute. What's his name? Pretty soon you're having conversations. Oh, where do you live? Oh, I live in the brick house. I love that house. You're doing such lovely work there. Where do you live? Oh, I thought you know, all of a sudden, you're part of something, and that dog is the reason why you cannot have a dog and not. He just walked in, he knows he's being talked about. You can't have a dog without people wanting to interact with you. They're a chick magnet if you're a young kid, if you're a young, you know, 20-year-old or a chick magnet, they're it, you know, and so that helped immensely. Immensely. The other thing is dogs when you he when you just touch their fur, there's that calming, but it's scientific that it's it's creating oxycotin, the still good drug. That's what dogs do when they connect to. And that need that we all have, whether people want to accept it or not, we all have that need to help somebody. If I can't help people, then I could help this little dog. And so it helped me to start gaining some of me again. And dogs are just flat out funny, they just do funny, funny things. They are, you know, and it's just they're just they're just fun. Um, they're conversation points, and so it didn't happen overnight, but I would tell you probably the number one thing that helped is realizing you can have all the drugs you want in the world, but the biggest drug is having purpose in your life. And all the purpose in my life had been stripped out. And I said, I I don't think I'm ready to work, I don't know what I want to do, but I can't just feel sorry for myself, and I can't just focus on this pain. So I went back to the shelter. It was about two weeks, and I had so oh man, I had so many mistakes with this dog, and I he was so helpful. I'd go back in or I'd call him and you know, he'd help me. And I said, you know, you're really good at dogs, and you really suck at marketing. I'm looking at your website and it's awful. And I do marketing and I'm really good. How about I volunteer? People don't willingly volunteer, but I said, No, I'm not gonna be like in the shelter because I don't do dogs, but I can do fundraisers and I can do websites, and so I started with bios and I increased their visibility, and then we I helped design a new logo and I got someone back home to do it for free. And then my husband rebuilt their website and as a volunteer, and then I started, I just did more and more. I did grant writing and I did fundraising. And in the four years before they closed because of COVID, I wrote 6,500 bios for 6,500 unique dogs at all-town homes. I changed the lives of 6,500 families, is what it comes down to, and saved the lives of these dogs from Kentucky where they brought these dogs in, because there were so many homeless dogs there. And it gave me a purpose, it made me feel good about myself, and in the process, it kind of put me on the map as the dog person, which is highly ironic because I'm not. Because you did not want the dog. I'm not a dog person, I'm not a dog person at all, which is really funny because I write books about rest of dogs and speak about it. And but I think God has a great sense of humor and he uses whatever he needs to use. And in this case, it was the seed that that doctor planted and said, I think you should get a dog.

Khalila McCoy 49:31

Yeah.

Carmen Leal 49:32

And I did. And and so he he did, he saved my life. Coconut, I mean his name is Coconut because my grandson said, You should name him coconut. I said, Why? Well, duh, his mommy and daddy are from Hawaii, we didn't get a name I'm pineapple. So coconut is the perfect name. He's he's brown and he curls up a little ball, he looks like a little brown coconut. And it's also a conversation starter because you can't hear my dog's name without saying, Coconut, why? Hawaii, right? And it just sort of blossoms into conversations, and this dog truly, truly saved my life. Uh on more than one occasion. There was another near suicide, even after I had him, and he saved my life again. And so we learned so much from dogs, um, from nature, from animals. I was never a big nature person. I always grew up in the city. Uh, moving to Hawaii certainly made me more in tune with nature, but it still kind of wasn't my thing. Um, I just kind of I accepted it and I loved it, but it wasn't me. But as I get older and as I'm in this environment, you know, we change. And so I am more in tune with nature. My yard is all native plants, and I'm helping the environment. And I watch out in the summerners and like, you know, monarchs and hummingbirds, and it's beautiful. And it sounds beautiful. Well, yeah, but the weed part isn't, and you know, I'm not a big gardener, so I'm like, I call myself the reluctant gardener, but I was on the garden walk, so you know, obviously I did something right. So you just never know what doors are there for you to go through. Um I was a real stubborn person, didn't want to. Um, I'm I'm I love this dog. Will there be another dog? I don't know. I mean, he's he's almost 10 now, so yeah, yeah. You know, he was not a puppy one we got him, and he was the really perfect fit for me. And so, you know, I wrote, I probably because I'm such a great marketer, should mention that I wrote two books, and one of them is called I Chose You, um, Imperfectly Perfect Rescue Dogs and They're Humans. And the second one is called When Love Wags a Tale. And both of these are compilation books where I tell my story and I weave it into each chapter, and then I interview people from all over the country and I tell their rescue dog stories because I felt like I haven't earned the right to write a book about dogs because I've had one dog. I mean, we had dogs growing up and whatnot, but really I'm a one-dog person. What I can't tell you what affected for a three-legged dog or have your dog die, or he'd get in a car, or be epileptic, or any of those things. I've I can't tell about having a puppy. But I know people, so I kind of think a mini memoir means chicken soup for the soul. That's what folks are. And then I started that. I'm getting asked to speak because I was a professional speaker for a long time. And so I have a talk that I give called um Life Lessons Learned from a Dog. And, you know, God gives us lessons and to learn, and and we can learn them from people, from nature, from dogs, from cats, from experiences. And so for me, um, I think the biggest lesson to learn is that dogs wake up every morning happy and excited to start the day.

Khalila McCoy 53:17

Yes.

Carmen Leal 53:17

Do you wake up every day excited and happy to start the day?

Khalila McCoy 53:22

No.

Carmen Leal 53:23

No, not every day.

Khalila McCoy 53:24

No, I need to work on that. Yes.

Carmen Leal 53:26

And I think that when, you know, every single, hi, hi, hi, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. They're just happy. I think that that's a huge lesson that I learned, and I have to be very specific about saying, I'm gonna wake up tomorrow and be happy. What is the one thing I'm looking forward to? And I think that's important. The other thing is dogs were so loyal. And after having people not be there for me, probably because I didn't ask them to, or because their life got busy, not just after the wreck, but after being, you know, getting divorced or caregiving or all those different times. I always have felt so often I felt left down, let down. I felt like I'm doing the heavy lifting on this friendship. The friendship exists because I'm doing it. And I know you've had those friendships, and you have family members like that, and you're wondering why do I keep doing this? But with a dog, they're loyal. That dog will never ever not be there for you. Right. Even dogs who are beat, even dogs who are treated horribly, yeah, they'll still be loyal. They love their owners, then there is connection. Dogs really are one person dogs. Like, Coconut likes my husband, he enjoys him, but Coconut loves me. I am his, I am his world. I don't know why he chose me, but he did. I can't, if I go upstairs, that dog's right behind me. If I go to the bathroom, he peeks in to make sure I'm okay and he goes away. I mean, this dog always wants me. And if I go on a trip or I'm sick, he he mopes until I'm better, until I get better. So, you know, I want to be, I want to be that loyal dog to my family and friends and the people who need me. Um, I've learned to treasure the close friendships that having dozens and dozens and dozens of friends doesn't matter. What I want is that small circle. A dog circle is real small, they don't need anything else. Now they'll enjoy it when all these people come and say, Oh, Richie's so cute, let me patch you in a pelly roll. So I like that. And I do like all the people that come my path and I interact with them and I have random conversations with strangers and it's it's uplifting and it's fun. I I do like that. But when it comes to those deep, enduring friendships, dogs have very few. I have very few. I don't need more. And when one friendship falls because of death or moving or whatever, I I'm gonna trust there's gonna be another person. A really cool story about this move is you know, we bought this house basically long distance. I never met the owner, and so we moved here and everything's horrible. And about a year, no, I mean it, there's not enough time on this clock to tell you how bad it was, but about a about a year after I met her, I was on a social media site called Next Door. And so those ladies kept asking, Does anybody have a good plumber? And I'd say, Oh, I do. I just had some plumbing work done. Go to this guy. Oh my gosh, we need an electrician. I have one. And it turns out I saw her name and saw my private messenger. I said, Are you the Angie who used to live on Otter Avenue? She goes, Yeah. I said, Oh, I bought your house. Oh neath. She bought another fixer-upper, and I was just ahead of her fixing up this house to another level that I had all the resources she needed. And so we decided to have lunch. And then I invited her and her husband and daughter over, and then her life fell apart because she missed had a miscarriage and her husband cheated on her and divorced her. And I was there for her, I cooked for her, I loved her. She's about, I don't know, 12 years younger. I don't know how old she is. No, 20 years younger, whatever. We became really close friends, and she's now my best friend, and we go to her house for Thanksgiving, and her entire family from California and Ohio and Milwaukee, everybody comes to my house for dessert. And they all get to see how the house has evolved. And she is truly my best friend in Oshkosh. And isn't that a great story? That God will give you the friendship that you need.

Khalila McCoy 58:06

Because and it's probably not what you expected, or it's certainly how you expected.

Carmen Leal 58:11

I mean, come on, as awful as social media can be, that's what got this real life trend. So anyway, that's just you know, so I I you know that loyal and she's my ride or die. And so dogs are loyal. Um, I've also learned from dogs that there is a joy in learning new things, and I think as we get older, we start to doubt our ability to learn new things or the need to learn new things. We get stuck. And if you can teach a dog to do all the outrageous things that people teach dogs to do, you know, I think I'm a little smarter than a dog in some ways. I if he can learn it, I can learn it. So, you know, you you say you can't, you cannot, you cannot teach a dog new tricks, but you can, and you can teach me a new trick. And I think that's really important that learning of the new things, because learning of the new things opens up new paths of your brain and it makes your brain work hard. And I will always have deficiencies, I mean I always will, but I've learned workarounds, and I part of those are because of learning new things, and I think if you you you use it or you lose it, and the dog has taught me that. Um dogs are super good at self-love. Yeah, I never are. I mean, when we see them looking themselves like, hey, little dog, quit looking at yourself. Well, he's he's loving himself, he's self-soothing himself. No, really, you know, dogs are so good at self-love. They know when to ask you, rub my belly, they know when to um ask for treats. I mean, they just love themselves, and they're not ashamed of loving themselves. So I don't wear anything except sandals, even in the winter, which is very bizarre. But if I'm gonna wear sandals, I'm gonna have pretty feet. I'm gonna have a pedicure. I'm gonna budget for this pedicure because I am wearing these claws, and they're gonna be pretty polished too in the middle of winter, right? You know, that sounds really so ridiculous, but it's not the pedicure, is that somebody's doing something for me? It's I'm sitting in a chair for 45 minutes keeping that foot rum and feeling special. You know, I'm relaxing. So dogs teach you how to love yourself, so love yourself like a dog because they know how to love, they love that. That's a lesson of I've and um you know dogs enjoy long walks, and we don't take enough walks. Do you take enough walks? Do you do you? No. We get in our car, we drive here, we drive there, we're inside building, we're in our people, we get in our car, we drive. And when you walk, you get to see spring happen. Right. You get to see fall happen, you get to see the faces of people, new people every day. You get conversations, you get a more relaxing pace. Dogs, when you take them for a walk, I'm like, but I thought when I got a dog, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna get this fat off me. We're gonna go fat. No. You gotta meander here and there, and you smell this. Yeah, no, no, no, no. It is not about it's it's it's the journey. And I learned that from my dog. It's not it's not a race, it's just appreciating everything that's around you, and dogs are so good about that, and we need to do that for ourselves because that's part of that self-love. We have to take care of ourselves, and then dogs understand the joy of play. My grandson is eight, and he was almost eight, and he came over and cooking it was playing with the ball, and he's still on the ball, and the dog's racing, and he's and he and he jumped up and he rolled over, and it was it was like, wow, dude, your arthritis medicine's kicking in, ain't it? You know, you roll. But it was so we're all laughing at this dog, and and it was just so much fun, and just the sheer joy of play. When was the last time you played? I don't mean going to the gym and getting on the stairmaster or a spin class or just play. Our bodies need it, our souls need it, our minds need it, and play is different for different people, but that dog has taught me that I just need I need to play. Um, you know what dogs know? They know the value of a really good nap.

Khalila McCoy 1:03:03

Oh that's something I need to work on as well. And I I don't nap.

Carmen Leal 1:03:09

I don't ever nap. And me either. Sometimes your soul just needs to nap. And so when I say they need to nap, it's not necessarily I need to close my eyes and snore and be gone for two hours in the afternoon, like my husband does. I need, no, true story. I I need my soul to nap. I need to let go, I need to be nourished. And that might mean getting a nap and closing my eyes, but often to me, a nap is just relaxing and not worrying about anything and just being. And dogs can do that. And I think we need to do that, and we don't do enough of that because our lives are so hectic and everybody's so angry these days. And I don't want to ever say that what's happening in this world is not scary and and stressful, and the anger that people have and the fear they have is real. Correct. But still, take some time to take a nap. Give your soul time to take a nap to find some peace. That's otherwise, you know, it's just not it's not all well. Um you know what dogs love? They love routines. I said I would never have a dog that sleeps in the bed. Well, he does. So this dog never say never. Oh, I know that. Uh this dog has a routine. He has to come upstairs, jump on the bed. My side has to be my side. And then we're in the bathroom, brushing our teeth, blah, blah, blah. And then I come in, and he goes to dad's side of the bed. I get in the bed, and then my husband gets in, and then he sleeps, he starts off in between us, and I say, coconut, coconut, come up, come up. He can't do any change of routine. He won't do any change. And so if it so he'll come up and then he stays there till I go to sleep, and then he goes to his bed or whatever. But the routine is always, always, always the same. And I'm not saying we have to be regimented like that, that we don't, we can't be flexible, but I am saying there's value in routines, in consistency, in knowing what comes next. We live in a world that feels like it's nothing but chaos. And so when we can create some routines at our life. That make us feel safe and secure. It's not that you don't work around those routines, but it they matter. And I never knew that. And I didn't have routines. And so having his routines has really helped me become grounded. And I learned that from my dog, just watching him, all the different ways that he has to have things exactly this way. Even eating. He wants me to be there watching him eat. Oh, come on, fools. Just eat the darn stuff. He's the same today as it was yesterday. Nope, gotta watch him. So it's kind of funny. And then um, the last thing is, and I think it's the most important thing in our world as it is right now. Dogs give everyone a chance. Yes. Until it's obvious they don't deserve a chance. Because dogs will always give you a second and a third and a fourth. You know, I might step on your foot and you will forgive me, and you will come right back to me and let me do it again. Now, if it continues to happen, he's not stupid. But dogs will always, always give everyone a chance. Everyone this dog meets has the possibility of being his friend. Whether it's a dog or whether it's a person, I have to be the one to check the boundaries. It's my job to say, okay, coconut, let's sit and let's wait. We don't know if this little boy likes dogs, so let's wait. You can just see him ready and his tails. He wants it so excited. But I have to, I have to make, I'm the one who has to make sure that everyone in his orbit deserves a chance. Because I, if I can read the body language of this big dog that's unleashed, no, this dog doesn't deserve a chance right now because his own is not there. We don't know if he's trained, he's bigger than you. He does, I just know it's not gonna end well, so let's not do this. Right. But dogs give everyone a chance. So, you know, those are the lessons I've learned from my dog, and I'm there's so many more. But I think that those are the ones that have helped me literally stay alive. Those are the ones that have helped me understand I have to have a purpose. That I may not be exactly the same as I used to be, but the core of me is who God made me. And I've had to learn new things, I've had to learn to be comfortable with taking a break and saying, I'm canceling this because I have a headache. I'm not joining this. I've I've learned the art of no. That's hard. That's a hard one. And dogs definitely have the art of no.

Khalila McCoy 1:08:52

Oh, yeah.

Carmen Leal 1:08:52

They definitely do. So I've really had to learn that was a super hard one for me. Because I struggle with that. I, you know, because I'm really good at lots of things, and I'm and I like to be involved, and I like helping people, and so learning how to say no has helped keep me alive. It really has. And so this has been like a whole mishmash of stuff, and hopefully there's something in it that.

Khalila McCoy 1:09:21

Oh no, I love talking to you, it's been great. I do want to know about your life lessons of dogs. Like, what made you, because you're not a dog person, you said you don't really like that. What made you decide, okay, I'm gonna sit down and write this and start sharing what I'm learning with others?

Carmen Leal 1:09:40

Um my son calls me Oshkosh Famous because I post a lot. I do a lot of social media. I don't get paid for it. It's not an influencer. I just I love marketing and I love helping small businesses. So when I buy something or I eat out, I never give a bad review, but I'm very vocal and now people follow me. And I get very involved in local politics, not running because I can't run because I don't want to muzzle on me, but I've been very um aggressive about helping candidates or um, like we had a referendum that I felt we weren't getting transparency. So I went out and found answers and then shared it. I didn't take sides, but I said, I need they're not transparent, I need to be. So as a result, I have many, many, many, many followers.

Khalila McCoy 1:10:37

Okay.

Carmen Leal 1:10:38

And when people learn my history of of having owned a firm, marketing firm, and being a professional speaker on all these different topics, I get asked to speak a lot. So uh the university uh here, it's University of Wisconsin, Oshkosh, has something called Life Lifelong Learners Program. And so people can pay a very nominal amount. I mean, they can go to all the workshops and presentations for free, they can audit classes, and I mean it's a pretty cool thing, it's for seniors. And so they asked if I would speak, and I said, sure. So because I have written books for and about caregivers and grief and all these really ugly topics, and when you're a senior, they had me speak at the big retirement home here, and so I thought, well, I'll I will do something called I have a talk called the um how to be the joyful caregiver. Because you don't think of joy and caregiving, they don't fit at all. And so that was the whole talk, and it was very popular. So the next season they said, Would you come back? I said, sure, I'll come back. What do you want? And they said, you know, you write, we know you have a dog. Can you write something about dogs? And we know you have this dog book, so maybe you can do a book signing. I said, sure. So I came up with my life lessons. I just thought about what people who are seniors might need to hear from me that involve dogs. I'm not gonna teach you about training your dog, I'm not gonna talk about vet health, I'm not gonna talk about fundraising, I'm not gonna talk about the things that I've learned. What do seniors specifically need? And I came up with my life lessons. And so I that's how that happened. And then the next one, because I got invited to be on the garden walk, because now my house is very famous, despite being a reluctant gardener, then I created life lessons learned from the garden. Yeah, so I now have this series of life lessons.

Khalila McCoy 1:12:49

Yeah, and they're always where's our next life lesson coming from? Do you know yet? I don't know. I don't know. You know, you name it.

Carmen Leal 1:12:55

I always tell I do a lot of podcasts and I just tell people, you choose. I, you know, you live long enough and you have enough horrible things happen and you're trying to rebuild your life. That means I have a lot of life lessons. And um, you know, you I'm gonna do one on parenting. My mother had eight kids, and then when we were gone, my mother um was a foster mom for almost a hundred boys. And so I learned a lot from my mom. So I'll probably do something on parenting, particularly teens. I was gonna call it what mama did. So these are the things that mama did when it comes to driving and uh discipline and you know, education, all those different teen things that are so hard, and then interview all my siblings. And what did you do? And how does it differ? And kind of looking that generational, how most of us raised our kids the way mama did. And when we were very, very poor, um, you know, welfare food box poor, single mom, and all four graduated from college, and all four homeowners, and all four, I mean, all eight sorry, have made it through life and are have purpose in helping other people and the legacy and all those foster kids. My mother's the reason that we are, and that we're leaving this legacy. I mean, just so many people of influence in their little community. There may not be anybody like, yes, my nephews are known worldwide, but and my uncle and different people, but most of us are not legends anywhere but our own little community. And we don't feel we don't feel like we're legends, we're just doing what we do. Um I don't know, like I'm a real big movie person, and I love Mr. Holland's opus. Yes, that's a good one. And that last scene when he thinks his life is a failure because the little red-headed girl comes back and help with the with the flute or clarinet, I guess clarinet, and she went on to be the governor of the state, and she comes back and he's lost his job and there's no hope. And he says, she says, you know, rumor has it that you are gonna be a big star, you're gonna write your opus, and you're going to make lots of money and be rich and famous. And you are famous, but not beyond this town. And I cry when I think of it because he just feels so shattered. He's gone through this whole life, walked into a career he never wanted. That was a short gig until he had enough money to tour. Right. And he went kicking and screaming, and at the end, you couldn't pull him out. He loved it so much, and he influenced 30 years of kids through Vietnam and through so much, and then off you go, go bye, go lead your life. And she says, You probably think you're a failure, but there isn't a life here that you have been touched. And then unbeknownst to him, he's gone to his wife, who's got his legacy, and the curtain is open, and there's all his students from the past and the present, and they play Mr. Holland's opus, and that's the legacy we all need. I would like to think that all of us, when we die, there's this group of people that say, You influenced my life. I'm the reason, you're the reason I did this and went there and helped that person. We're all interconnected, right? Yes. So my mom was such a legacy when I went to her funeral, and I'm sorry for crying, it's just planning on that. So when I went to her funeral, there were a lot of faces I didn't know. And I realized all these people were foster kids I'd never known because I was already gone living my life. And they heard and they drove and they flew and they made sure they could be there to pay tribute to this woman.

Khalila McCoy 1:17:26

That's beautiful.

Carmen Leal 1:17:28

And isn't that the life we're supposed to live?

Khalila McCoy 1:17:30

Yes.

Carmen Leal 1:17:32

It may be you're chosen to be a worldwide icon and everybody mourns you in the whole world, or it's just your little town, it doesn't really matter. That's what you're called to do. And those are things that I've known throughout my life, but this period with the headaches and the suicidal, and what things should I live, and what purpose do I have? That's when it's really come home. And I'm not doing the big things I dreamed of. I'm not commanding a world stage. I'm not, I haven't written a bestseller. Um, it's it's not the life I dreamed of living. Trust me, Oshkosh Wisconsin. I dreamed of living, but but it's the life I have. And it's my dog that's helped me to learn these lessons and be able to help teach other people. And people say, Why do you do all these podcasts when you don't make any money? I go, because I like talking to people and I like sharing, and it's giving me the stage I used to have when I flew around the world and I did this. I don't do that now, but it still gives me a chance to share. So anytime you want me back, uh the answer is yes. Oh, yes. The answer is yes.

Khalila McCoy 1:18:53

I cannot wait. Yes, thank you so much. I'm over here crying now, too. Yeah. All right, Carmen, you've said so many things, so many great things. And I know this will be hard in the grand scheme of things, but what is the one thing if you if our listeners could take away just one thing today, if they heard nothing else, how would you encourage them to rise to trust that inner voice because it's there, and I think that not trusting ourselves and what God has planted into us is that's just a trick of Satan.

Carmen Leal 1:19:41

It just is, and you know you've had so many times you didn't trust, and then you say, Oh, if I would have, and the opportunity's gone, and then your self-esteem goes lower and lower because you see other people having opportunities that you didn't have, and it can make you start being jealous, it can make you start being feeling just bad about yourself. So I would I would say trust. I didn't trust myself, I didn't I didn't do everything I should have done because I didn't trust that voice. I didn't ask for help, I didn't quit working, I didn't trust that I wasn't gonna be homeless. You know, I didn't trust. And if I would have trusted, I would I wouldn't be here. And obviously, I wouldn't have my good friend, I wouldn't have my dog, I wouldn't have my house. It doesn't really matter. This is where I'm at, and this is where. And I I can't go backwards and say if I would have done this then, but trust yourself. That's what I think.

Khalila McCoy 1:20:59

Well, thank you so much for your time today and your story.

Carmen Leal 1:21:04

Oh, you're a good interviewer, you're so gracious, so thank you.

Khalila McCoy 1:21:07

Oh, I appreciate it. I am honestly, this is the easiest thing. I just listen and enjoy.

Carmen Leal 1:21:12

Wow, you did a great job.

Khalila McCoy 1:21:14

I really appreciate you. And tell us where we can find, like if they want to find you on social media, find your books, where so I have a website, cartmanleal.com.

Carmen Leal 1:21:24

That's c a r-n-e-n-l-e-l.com. It always needs updating. Uh, and I don't work on it as I should, but it's I'm easy to find. And then my books are readily available on Amazon. I only have two that are in print right now. I have the rights back to the other ten that I've written, and I have to figure out what I want to do with them if anything. But right now, I'm just focusing on my doggies and seeing what is my next chapter.

Khalila McCoy 1:21:53

What else do I do? Yeah.

Carmen Leal 1:21:54

So I'm really easy to find.

Khalila McCoy 1:21:56

Okay, we'll link that in the show notes, and every I'm sure everybody will be following you to see your next steps and waiting for your next book. I'm really grateful I had the chance to record with Carmen. There are so many moments in her story where life could have taken a different turn, moments that could have kept her from even being here today. But even in all that struggle, there's this thread of joy, humor, and hope that shines through her. Carmen covered so much ground in our conversation, and I encourage you to go back and listen again. What stood out to you? What lessons can you take from a dog and actually apply in your own life? Who is shaping you and helping build your legacy? And what gift do you carry that the world is waiting for? As you sit with those questions, Carmen leaves us with one final message of hope.

Carmen Leal 1:23:00

We have so many good people on our earth, and we just need to not get discouraged. And you can give of yourself and you can give of your talents and your time, and you can make so much difference. It's so much more than money. It's just being you and trusting that there is something in you that God only put in you, He only made me just like me. And even with this brain damage, and even with my not feeling like I used to feel, not having some of the gifts I thought I used to have, it's okay. God will work with what he has in you. Yes.